Gravel Travel Adventure Motorcycling Podcast

Rika de Bruyn

JJ le Roux Episode 7

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0:00 | 38:01

Rika de Bruyn is a well known motorcycle adventure rider and entrepreneur from South Africa with a compelling yet inspiring story. With a Gravel road that was a bit tougher than it was for others she uses this to drive her everyday life.

Rika leaves no dust in her wake, she started the Dual Bike Adventure event in South Africa sharing the passion and growing the motorcycling family. 


Rika contact:
https://www.dualbikeadventures.co.za
rika@dualbikeadventures.co.za
Rika Facebook

Gravel Travel Contact:
@graveltravel_podcast
graveltravelpodcast@gmail.com
facebook page

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Podcast Music by: 7th Floor Tango by Silent Partner



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Speaker 0 (0s): No. 

Speaker 1 (22s): Welcome to this week's edition of Gravel Travel I'm your host JJ le Roux

Speaker 2 (32s): It's fascinating to see how motorcycles play a pivotal role in people's lives. From a very young age Rika of the brand started writing to late in life, become a contender and the winner of a South African national skills competition to the top. There Rika was also a selected as a finalist to go to the BMW GS trophy. Her compelling story is extremely inspiring. Rika leaves no dust in her wake. She started the Dual Bike Adventure event in South Africa sharing the passion and growing the motorcycling family. 

So this morning we chatting to Rika the Bruyn. I'm gonna ask you too to take us down that a little road to take this down, to take this on a journey. Um, and just tell us a little bit about yourself. Who are you with you live in it and, and what is your everyday life about? 

Speaker 3 (1m 27s): Thanks to JJ I'm a science for the opportunity to grow this thought by way I grew up, umm, I was fortunate to, to grow up in Swaziland. Umm, I was two years old born in 68 and 1970. My folks moved to Swaziland and um, my dad, the nicer, the Bruyn he was the very well known farmer, farming, cotton and cattle. 

And we have a very good life. A in Swaziland is kids, my sister Varda. She was like, it is older than me. So I didn't really know her that well as a kid, because in Austria years old, she went to primary school and she was in boarding schools. So, um, which, which was in L spread area, my brother bought it and I we're kind of close. We, we will not really a close knit family. 

Um, we were scattered all over the place and um, voting being three years older than me was like the only friend because we were very much secluded on a farm in the corner of ah, you know, Moe is a big, if I can put it that way, the form's name was in color, Sean, which, um, was like a stone throw away from the Mozambican border. So, you know, we, we grew riding motorcycles, not having TV, obviously no cell phones at the time. 

And then that's where my love for Motorcycling started. My first Bike actually it was a little Honda, a 75 CCS. Does it a little automatic motorcycle had a lot of fun on that. And then we, we got a Suzuki, I think it's an RV 90th, a fat cat. I don't know if you, if you remember the, yes, the fat cats. I just love that park. When, when I set on that at, it really feels like all their diversity because it was, it was like lo and Phat, you know, whether it's fat tires and um, and after that I think I was like probably seven, eight years old. 

When I jumped on to a Yamaha, a G one 75, I couldn't kick started because I was just a little bit, but we lived on a you and it's quite nice memories thinking how I figured out too to get this thing started in gear and we got down the Hill. I was just, I just couldn't play the di because I wouldn't be Apple to kickstarted and get up, get up back to that house. So, you know, that was fond memories of <inaudible> and I'm going to a school. 

We were, we were putting in boarding school and only got in a way in term of a, of a on days. So since, uh, a little kid, we were brought up to be independent and to become entrepreneurs, 

Speaker 2 (4m 38s): Please allow me the time to linger a little bit on those moments, starting that motorcycle. What can you, can you recall or remember some of the sensations and the feelings that you had riding bikes? 

Speaker 3 (4m 53s): I remember riding these motorcycles, baby foot, no helmet. Um, the, uh, the little, our friends were With with a workers' children. So, you know, these AIG said that the carrier rack at the back of our a foreman's you use these motorcycles, you know, on the farm. And when dad went to town, which was like an hour and a half of strive away from the farm to Manzini, we kind of stole these spikes from the, from the foreman. 

And, um, that, that didn't know about that because it wasn't supposed to be our bike's. We had little, a little box, you know, and he flew at the time. Um, we had a strip at the bottom of the house and that's where I learned the ride, this thing up and down, up and down With with all my mates, like two or three of them sitting on the tank and two or three of them sitting on the carrier and coming around corners. When I think back, um, or the track is on the form coming from the front, a lot of tasks, I think back now we use to write the sparks into the heaps of cotton. 

Um, it was just my hair rises when I think back how irresponsible we actually were. I still back a lot of risks in life. And I think I learned to do that from a very young age cause um, my dad would drop us at a Thorstad with 20 bucks in and out in our pockets and it looked like, okay, see you next them and you just had two to cope. I mean, I was selling newspapers and average line my cup and top a way. 

And if anything, I could put my hands on. Um, at the time my dad actually owned two to two or three liquor stores in L spread. And I remember on Wednesday's we were allowed to, to get it down, um, in the afternoon to do some shopping. And what I would do is by, I still love a Ross. I still have a Ross in my car, but everyday I would buy it. I would order two to three cooler boxes of IES from the liquor store, which they delivered at the hostel because my dad owned it that year. 

And at those days we didn't have a tack shop in Austel. So study breaks, the kids were keeping at my door, um, where they were their coffee mugs. And I would get a thought of our Ross and three blocks of ice for 20 cents. And our promise you, I tripled my salary, which was 20 bucks a term, um, you know, with, with, with a liter of Ross. And that's the way my, I think my entrepreneurial skills started it was, was at school and, um, obviously to die, uh, as an entrepreneur, I I'm, um, I'm, I'm very grateful for, you know, my, my, my dad was quite a rich guy at one stage and he didn't, he just didn't, you know, give us money. 

You had to earn your own money. 

Speaker 4 (8m 9s): So you weren't just an entrepreneur. You are also excelled in sport. 

Speaker 3 (8m 14s): Ah, I was fortunate enough to have two aunts that were professional tennis coaches. So being at boarding school, all I there in the afternoons was to play tennis and I became a top tennis play in South Africa or the top 10 ranking. 

Speaker 4 (8m 31s): I remember playing, playing finals in, in tennis tournaments. And you know, we in the schools, when the schools close the first week of holidays, I play tournaments. Um, and then early on a winter term, so of the three weeks of, of holidays, I could only spend home two weeks because the first week was tournaments and championships too, 

Speaker 3 (8m 56s): To get into the provincial site and to get to school. She had to do all of this for rankings. So yeah, that's, that's, that's much all the dyes of the school by that kind of, 

Speaker 5 (9m 9s): No, 

Speaker 3 (9m 11s): I wanted to apply to go and study computers at the technical of Victoria and he just said, Nope, you're going to the air force because of your tennis. Um, the HFOs can, um, you know, give you an opportunity too, to, to play your tennis and, and which was, which was absolutely fantastic because I was like two or in South Africa and earning a salary at the same time when, um, I went into training, um, which I'm very proud of. 

I've finished the physical training instructor scores, which is a nine month, very, very active course, umm, to become a PTI is not, not easy. And I'm going into the schools. We we're 150 people. Um, five ladies and the rest were men within two weeks, three ladies dropped off and said that cannot, that kind of continue. It was too tough. And at the end of the nine months, which started with three months roll fives, three months with and fives and three months PT defies, 60 of us finished the course and the day I got those words on my shoulders, I, I knew that a lot of that is coming from my dad, you know, within a week I wanted to quit myself. 

And I remember standing at a call box. I still in the que for an hour to, to be able to make a call. And when my dad answered the phone and I told him that I'm quitting, you say to me, excuse me, you start something and you finish it. And he threw the phone down. And that was the end of that today. I would just like to tell people not to quit. And that's my motto in life. If you start something you believe in yourself, believe in the product that you sell, never quit. 

There's always a way out. So I spent seven of my, of my seven years of my career in the air force. And that was from It seven to 93, um, of the, which I, um, except that a job or the banana growers association of South Africa and our return back to Nell Sprite, um, spend about three or four years with them before I resigned and went overseas with a friend, um, Janine stole to be my base. 

My, um, we still speak a lot. And um, we spent a year of time in San Francisco, um, illegal working on fisherman's Wharf, selling t-shirts, um, spending three months, it was ate the quizzes. Um, both of us actually I'm with DARPA boyfriends. At that time, she was actually engaged and it was during the time of the world cup, the world cup rugby nanny 95, I think. 

And a, we went like on a rampage, we sold our costs. We sold our fridges. We sold everything, both a return ticket to the UAS and um, spend 11, 11 months they illegal and earned enough money to travel the sites and come back. I had like to use dollars left in my pocket. 

Speaker 2 (12m 40s): Tell me what happened when you returned from America? 

Speaker 3 (12m 43s): No, I started working for him on the back, but in that time I, um, I got involved in, in a relationship with a married man, which I'm not proud today. Um, at the time other than I, he was married, got involved. Um, you know, uh, it was, it ended up being an abusive relationship, um, which, which is quite a, quite a while for me to get over. I couldn't trust me in for many years. 

I, ah, you know, and at the time I was like city 30, three years old and that continued to for years, ah, it was a time of my life that I'm not proud of. But what I can say is, is that we have learned so much from it. I've learned to forgive him. And at the end of the day it takes two to Tango. 

It's the choices that you make it's about saying no, which I could have done if I, if I think back there's a lot of things I would have done different, but to die, I'm quite happy with a Y our life turned up for me and it's made me stronger as a person. 

Speaker 2 (14m 7s): Mmm. And you, you, you told me, you said that you started riding motorcycles again. Um, what, what brought to us about what, what was the trigger? Why, what, what brings you to that point where decide that it is it, is it a memory thing? Is that as a lingering for something familiar as that? Or is it something, you know, if you missed it and you're missing family life and you, you, you miss that familiarity, 

Speaker 4 (14m 37s): I'll, I'll tell you what, um, I, I couldn't afford an Adventure bike at a time and I got a little six 50 years of the, the, um, the abusive relationship riding. My motorcycle was the only way to get through this, to be out thee, just to have the freedom. And I promise you now that, that, that really pulled me through at one stage I had to sell the bike was I couldn't afford Mmm. 

You know, keeping it up. And a couple of years later, I got my second six 50, and then I upgraded two it all for a hundred years after that, I, I, I bought my first guy to the nine 90 model, but just, just to get back to the Motorcycling bought, um, riding my motorcycle really, really healed a lot of the emotions that went through me at the time when I was in this relationship. 

And how did I get out of it? So many? So cologists the fosters. Yes, the devil. But the only way to get through this is to make the choice and to step away from it. And that's what I did. I woke up one morning and off the lie, lying to my family for so many times of whom I With, where are, was, who am I going away with the weekend? 

It just, it just got to me. And it was the best decision I've ever made. It's a step away that morning when I woke up and my life changed, my life actually changed to such an extent that I wanted to prove a point. And it's as if the world just opened for me, I quit my job at the time. I just It. It's just It. I did 20 thing. 

I started a little business on the sidewall. I was working in the motor industry. And, um, at one stage I was earning 80% of my income through this business, but I was spending 80% of my time at work. And, um, I said to my mom, one morning, I sit to listen, I'm quitting. I'm going to go full time into what I'm doing at the moment, just back beyond this. 

Speaker 2 (17m 7s): And what was that at the time? What, what was that? Motorcycling 

Speaker 4 (17m 12s): TV ads and I'm still running that business. It's not, it's, it's, it's not due to the extent that I used to do it because I've got all sorts of other, other things. That's keeping me busy, but I started a TV ads on the side. Um, and, uh, I grew it to such an extent that It percent of my income came from TV ads. And, um, the day I was actually having a fight with my boss, he is a family member. And, um, 

Speaker 2 (17m 46s): Sorry, I have to laugh. It's ironic. Or is it, well, we had 

Speaker 4 (17m 50s): This fight was over something stupid. I had to the office locked and it was this tall controller at that time. And, um, he saw the core cash and it was, it was like a Saturday morning. And I was on my motorcycle. He tried to call me in the night, this documents, I wasn't at work cause I wasn't supposed to be at work. And he was rude at me. So guess what? The Sunday morning I walked into my office, I had keys for the building. I open the office, took my laptop and I walked out of there and I never looked back. And that's when I realized I'm not working for myself. 

I'm done. And yeah, that, that, that, that changed my life that day. So yeah, that, that, that's another story, um, believe in yourself and work hard and you will succeed. And that's exactly what happened. So like this, 

Speaker 3 (18m 41s): The years I started riding and I started attending Dual, Bike giving things, the salvage is challenged on my BMW a night, the years I started attending Alfie Cox's event. And in 2011, I think after the, like the fifth or sixth event that, that are attended, I drove back in El Sprite and driving through both. Plus I realized that we have such an awesome area. 

Why, why don't that do the same, an open it up for all brands 

Speaker 2 (19m 15s): You are talking about your own event. You, you had ideas to create an event motorcycle event. Is that right? 

Speaker 3 (19m 22s): That is correct. And why I'm going back to that now is just to explain to you what happened in 2012, which is actually changed our family's life. So many years ago, my dad passed away. Um, he had strokes and all sorts of, you know, um, illnesses, my event I was scheduled for, I think the 6th of June, 2012. So a month prior, I was busy with my final Reikis and one, my 2012. 

I, um, I went out on my motorcycle with Mark Taylor and Lee board North and all my mind's from L spread. And we did the final Reiki, got, um, that afternoon ly on my, a card that my shower relaxing. And I got the most terrifying goal that I can never, I can, I can never explain to you. It's it's the coal you never want. 

My brother had just been shot for a score out in front of his wife in urine. And I, um, 

Speaker 5 (20m 38s): No, 

Speaker 3 (20m 39s): I cannot explain to you on how that changed our lives. It was a month before my first event, I had to keep focusing, but the worst 

Speaker 6 (20m 48s): Of all 

Speaker 4 (20m 50s): Was to travel to my mother that evening to give her the new, so a moment about them, that they were very close that often in, when we win, this happened to my brother. Um, you know, reading the headlines. Do we get in with the rice, uh, begin the outlaw Felder, DVX <inaudible>, um, reading the eight lands, 400, the Bruyn sister. 

It's a <inaudible> on <inaudible>. The Bruyn has opted to Neil, do it for Floor sister, a nail Sprite. If you had a Bruyn kind of a marker and <inaudible> to try these on lighting, you know, um, 

Speaker 5 (21m 42s): No 

Speaker 4 (21m 44s): That that's a part of my life. I just never want to. Um, what's the English word? <inaudible> a, you wouldn't wish it upon anybody. Exactly. 

Speaker 6 (21m 60s): I was, I was struggling within myself. I was struggling with, with my religion because my brother that you actually worked for the church and it could have actually been a boss. He was, he was such a religious man. And I struggled to the fact that why him, why was he taken away? Why this, this man that is pray for so many people that it's been leading cell groups, it's it became, it became a big struggle with him or herself. 

And, um, I thought, you know, 

Speaker 5 (22m 42s): No, 

Speaker 6 (22m 43s): If, if, if I could relocate and just, just go, you know, somewhere where I can find some peace within myself and 

Speaker 5 (22m 51s): No, 

Speaker 6 (22m 54s): You won't believe it. It's exactly what I achieved. It, it took a bit of guts as well. The fact that you no, to sell your house, the relocate to Bolden new businesses side to buy a new house. Um, it, it, it took quite a bit of guts and, and I'm proud to say that it's inspired off of started a business. This side I'm renovating houses. Um, I'm, I'm doing my Bike events on the side. 

I don't know. What's the sideline job. It's the renovations or the Bike events or the TV ads. I was still running a, still of Elmo on doing my gardening services back in El Sprite for the only reason that I, um, I didn't want to retrain shim. So, you know, he's pushing alone. My words it has to pay is on salary. So, you know, I've got, I've quite a few things 

Speaker 3 (23m 46s): In the boss, a skirt, um, and I'm, I'm very fortunate decide that it's going well with me. It's going well with me as a person. Um, my, my, uh, my mindset, um, as, as, as changed through a lot of positivity eye, I liked you speak positive. Um, I'm quite a bit on Facebook. I, I shared my life on Facebook, um, because you know, uh, it's the biker people out there that they're my family. 

Um, my sister recently visited me. It was so awesome. We, we did a road trip to Cape town last week and, um, you know, it's, it's all I have except for my cousins or my aunts. And they scattered all over South Africa. So my biking firmly, I really do cherish a lot. Um, running these events is, is just something that it's just so amazing. I love every moment doing it. 

It's a lot of work. Um, the buildup to each event. It's just amazing. So, um, I'm very fortunate, um, where I am at the moment, 

Speaker 2 (24m 59s): I feel that you went to, you bought a motorcycle again, because you want to remember the good times you, you want to remember those times when you went chasing down the runway, the saw on the side of the runway with two guys on the Kerry and to go on the tank and all those good times. And that's the reason why you went and bought a motorcycle again. That's why you came involved and you wanted to be involved at it again. 

And you weren't, you were, you were lingering. You wear that. There was a, there was something familiar about it. Something come from a comforting. Why don't you, why don't you talk us through that? I want to know what is it I want to you to Dick really deep. And tell me about Motorcycling and the comfort it brings you. 

Speaker 7 (25m 59s): No, 

Speaker 3 (26m 4s): Thank you. Um, like I said before, I think, um, 

Speaker 7 (26m 9s): No, 

Speaker 3 (26m 10s): Well, while, while I write, I really get to sync a lot and I've learned to, to forgive and most of all, um, 

Speaker 7 (26m 24s): Aye, aye. 

Speaker 3 (26m 28s): I need to, I need to ask for forgiveness myself, cause I I've, I've done, I've done wrong also through this process is not, not the only I'm going through the 

Speaker 4 (26m 44s): Trauma of my brother's death. I think, um, coming through a, a, an abusive, an abusive relationship, um, I had to work through this and I think Motorcycling has such helped me, um, to do, to really heal and to forgive. Um, 

Speaker 3 (27m 10s): It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's been quite, it's been quite hard 

Speaker 4 (27m 14s): Journey. Um, I think the fact that, you know, people that ride with me that come to my events, 

Speaker 7 (27m 26s): No, 

Speaker 4 (27m 26s): I call them my family, you know, um, my light mother, 

Speaker 3 (27m 33s): Well, she was very proud of me when I pulled off puffers due by quaint exactly a month of, to my brother's kids. She had a sister on Joey that they can speak to about close the day and they helped me with registration. And I felt so sorry for my mom that day, because she was like, she was a broken pocket in her and I'm and yet she found a way to come and assist and in meat and get rid of not many people at the time, knew 

Speaker 4 (28m 15s): What we are gone through. So, you know, um, to fix the situation on that day, I'll never forget. Um, 

Speaker 7 (28m 27s): No, 

Speaker 4 (28m 29s): I really hope that, and I believe that I'm an inspiration for, for many ladies and With either write or a one to write. And I think a lot of men too. So, um, as I said of mind, a lot of clothes, spring's not only right, it is, but, but partners in the business industry, um, with this sport, um, they're not only my sponsors, they, my partners, th they become family and 'em, as I would say it, um, I'm, I'm proud to have my dispassion into, into a successful business and to go to go Motorcycling the business is something that I'm really proud of. 

And, and I was actually a finalist in a 2002 in Kruger Lohfeld chamber business and tourism awards, Andy, for entrepreneur of the year end in 2014, I, I won, I won the same, um, competition is the kale CBT small business enterprise award for Lohfeld dualbikeadventures for bringing tourism into the, into 

Speaker 3 (29m 42s): The Lohfeld and a very proud of that. Um, and, and all of this, it's not about awards. It's really not about awards. It's it's about, it's about inspiring people inspiring. And, and obviously I'm proud of that. 

Speaker 2 (29m 60s): The, the, the, the motorcycle events, I know it's is something that people look forward to every year. It's become part of the, the yearly calendar, the roots, the challenges, because it's not just about a motorcycle event, is it it's about, it's about challenges that you pose to people by, by exposing them in different ways like your dad exposed. Do you have your dad dropped you off somewhere and say, right. Cope with it? You, you, you go out the, you do a reconnaissance run for these events and you make black and red and green roots, and people are challenged in different ways and its your challenge to them. 

It isn't it. I mean, I look at you and I think how the hell, I mean, yes, there's a moment on a 1290 KTM in writing there with the boys. It's it's amazing. It gives me goosebumps. I mean it's, you know, so, so, so with this piece that you found now, it's, it's, it's kind of you've come full circle and that's absolutely brilliant, isn't it? 

I mean, how amazing is that, that something like a motorcycle has brought so much healing in your life, whether you are in the high felt or <inaudible> or, or in Mosul Bay? 

Speaker 6 (31m 33s): No, definitely. I am. Um, I'm very fortunate. I, I, I cannot tell you how I, I just love doing what I'm doing. I just love doing what I'm doing. I have got so many people together and doing what I love. Um, look, that's a lot of pressure. It's a lot of pressure. I have been fortunate that no one has passed away at my veins. 

Um, I've got a part in Mark Tyler that's responsible for, for, for most of the routes except for the <inaudible> and um, uh, we've, we've, we've just had so much fun. Um, you know, due to put this thing together, to deal with the sponsor's, to deal with the lodge, to deal with the food, to deal with the injuries, to deal with the money, to deal with who sleeps with, I mean, I know who all the snoring is that guy doesn't want to sleep for that car because I know what size on the fence there a way, you know, it's like, um, yeah, uh, it, it, it, it is just so, so amazing to put these together and, um, lost for words, their veins are or done with it. 

Like you see you next time, you know, you're, you're, you're family is leaving you now and, and they are our family. Um, everybody that comes to these events or just the amazing people, I love them all. And um, yes, I do my money out of it. I have to do it for my job, but I still think we, we, we asked affordable event and um, people still love them. And, and I, Oh, this, this will continue for years to come. 

Speaker 2 (33m 25s): I would like to touch on, on the role that women play in Motorcycling as such, whether it's in the kind of events that you are hosting, whether it's just as a, as a rider or whether it's just as a Polian. Um, th let's talk about the growth over the years, over the last few years, especially of, of women in the industry, moving to a woman in, in, in partaking, in, in, in advance. 

And this year women taking the first two African woman, um, partaking in a, in the Dakar rally. 

Speaker 6 (34m 4s): So many ladies are riding motorcycles now, and it's increasing, the numbers are increasing. They became good. They, they are competitive. They want to be up there. They came from six 50 Jesus riding. <inaudible> riding up to 12 hundreds. Yes, I'm going to 12, nine <inaudible>, which compaigns to a hundred percent was a 1200 GA. So I had two of those previously. I just love Mark It him for numerous reasons. I'm not a brand basher. 

Um, my veins also welcome, you know, uh, brands' from all sorts. Um, Katie, Amy has just been very good to me with regards to sponsorships on <inaudible> red, um, and Katie in South Africa. So obviously, uh, I support the brand that supports me. 

Speaker 2 (34m 58s): If you meet a lady right now that show any form of interest in riding a motorcycle, but has never done so before, what will you tell her? Why she, she do it? 

Speaker 6 (35m 11s): I would love not, not to go in to the training, but to inspire ladies', to ride, um, the amount of freedom that you get out of it. And it's just amazing. And anytime I will welcome any, any lady to visit me, to stay with me, to come ride with me, to do it, to, to share my knowledge any time, any day, I love to do that. 

Speaker 3 (35m 39s): And the writing more and more ladies also attend the events that, that we are host. Um, I've seen, I've seen a huge growth in, in Adventure biking with regards to the ladies. And it's amazing. I love it. I've got many, many lady friends that ride. 

Speaker 2 (35m 56s): I want to, I want to thank you for, for sharing your story and touched on so many different things. I'm grateful for the fact that even though I've had my own challenges in life, didn't have to receive that message about my brother being shot, losing your father, having the family broken up in so many different ways what's left behind is Rika the brain, which is a person that I know right now. And it's a person that I'm grateful for because you bring the fraternity so much. 

You, you, you inspire people, whether it's selling your business in Hillsborough to moving to Mosul Bay and starting and starting out a fresh it's great. And, and the fact that you're still there, you're still riding your motorcycle and you still inspiring people every single day. Unbeknownst you and thank you for The. Thank you for you. 

Speaker 6 (36m 50s): Thank you. JJ yo. It was so nice too. I think to you, if I, if I could put one message out the lady's, if you're in an abusive relationship, don't stay for the wrong reasons. If you have doubt in your business, get out the sink out of the box, believe in yourself, get up every day, be positive, speak positive, 

Speaker 2 (37m 17s): And never give up. Right? 

Speaker 6 (37m 19s): Never give up. Don't think negative, don't speak negative. You will attract positive people in your direction and you will succeed. Be good, be kind to one another. And let's be happy in this very, very, very terrible time of COVID-19 of slow, positive that we gonna beat this. And I'm 

Speaker 3 (37m 43s): Thank you for chatting. Thank you for chatting. JJ 

Speaker 1 (37m 48s): No, no.